What a terrible experience! I can understand you feeling very discouraged,
but please give it another try.

It is highly unlikely that it was a setup because posting clues to a
letterbox and then laying in wait is a very inefficient way to commit
criminal acts. The perpetrator may have had to wait a day, a week, or a
month. Some boxes go months without visitors! I guess the only reason I
might believe you were set up is if you contacted the placer and said "My
family is going to be looking for your box this evening" - if that happened,
then maybe it was a setup. Otherwise, no...

May I suggest that you try again, and this time find a box or two not quite
so rural so you can get your feet under you again and not feel nervous?
Letterboxing is truly a wonderful activity and the vast majority of
experiences are very good. You pulled a bad draw this time, but you never
know, one of these days you may go back and find that same box and be glad
you stuck with it.

Chin up!
--
Barefoot Lucy
"It's not about footwear, it's about philosophy"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It sad to see that your first letterboxing experience was not at all
a good one. I don't believe that what happened to you in this
unfortunate case is representative of letterboxing overall. It seems
that you were the victim of some pathetic people, but it may very
well have nothing to do with letterboxing at all. While the clues
may have been vague, some people do that on purpose to make their
boxes harder to find. I've looked for some boxes were the clues were
certainly less than ideal. Most people would probably have to see
the clues and visit the location to know for sure. Unless the clues
were really a joke. In addition, if it was a letterbox ruse, the
perpetraitors would have to be waiting a long time to catch someone
out on "the hunt". You never know when someone's going to be looking
for a box - unless they post in a chat room before hand- the time
they are going and the place they are going to. It may just have been
an all too common act of stupidity and theft as opposed to an attempt
to use letterboxing to rob people. At least I hope that this
activity is not being used in that manner. Even though the
experience was not a good one, hopefully you will try letterboxing
again in the future, maybe in a different area. Anyway, they'll
probably get what they deserve in the end. -John



--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "sixpoppers"
wrote:
>
> My sisters, my son and I have been very excited to get started with
> letterboxing.
>
> We decided to go on our first hunt last night.
>
> We printed out clues for a letterbox near us in a forest preserve
in
> Orland Park, IL.
>
> First of all, we spent about 45 minutes searching since the
> directions became quite vague once we were in the forest. We gave
> up, very disheartened, finding nothing.
>
> The worst part was when we returned to my car in the parking lot.
> It had been vandalized - a window had been shattered and my purse
> stolen with all my credit cards and drivers license.
>
> I had just bought this car on Tuesday. How devastating.
>
> My husband feels that this could have been a set up. Get people to
> go deep into the forest on a search for nothing while they break
> into your car.
>
> I am really sad about the car, the theft, the vandalism AND that
> letterboxing turns out to be a very high risk activity. I guess we
> won't be doing this again.
>
> K.
>

K, I am sorry your first experience was so terrible.

I doubt it was a set up though. Probably it's a place that bad guys often
break into cars because people go walking there, but that is was connected
to the letterbox in any way... that I would seriously doubt.

Please please give it another try. Be sure to pick a box that has been
recently found, that way you know (as a newbie) that it should be there.
And try to find clues that are more direct, save the harder ones for later!

Could you let us know what box exactly it was so that the owner can decide
if they want to put a note in the clues about what happened to you?

I'm sure it put a bad taste in your mouth, and your husband's about
letterboxing. But this is a wonderful, fun, exciting, interesting, hobby.
It's worth trying again.

RIFamily


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.6.8/800 - Release Date: 5/11/2007
7:34 PM


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi K,

Welcome to letterboxing! If you think about it, letterboxing is really no
more unsafe than any other activity you'd be doing in whatever area forest
preserve you went to. Thank God it was your car that was damaged and not
your or any of your family.

Cook County forest preserves can present more than the usual amount of
problems because they're both secluded, so you can easily end up in an area
where nobody will hear you scream or, if they do, they're not about to help
you anyway, and since Cook County is so urban and so populated, there are
likely to be far more "weirdos" and "sickos" abounding. There are also a
lot of homeless people who live in forest preserves, about 1/3 of the
homeless population are emotionally disturbed in some form or another, and
they can become both very upset if they feel people might be coming too
close to where they've stashed their possessions and also can tend to break
into vehicles looking for cash or anything they can sell quickly.

If you're not used to keeping an eye out for yourself in a forest preserve
setting, you might want to try some of the DuPage County boxes first to get
a feel for it. Not that ANY preserve is totally safe, tho. I had the
scariest boxing "adventure" of my life so far out on Johnson's Mound in Kane
County, a box planted by the now-apparently-defunct Gray Family 5. And I've
always felt that Kane County's preserves were pretty darn safe.

You mention "night." I'm hoping that means you're not boxing in the Cook
County forest preserves after dark. Not wise. If you're talking, "night",
as in maybe early evening, after work and before the sun goes down, I still
wouldn't go on a Thursday evening.

The only box somewhat in your area that I definitely would NOT attempt
unless you've got your wills updated is the one that takes in Bachelor's
Grove Cemetery.

My own personal opinions about Cook County forest preserves are that the
"safest" boxing has been on weekend mid-mornings and early afternoons.
Monday thru Friday SEEM great as far as being able to search for boxes with
oftentimes few people around to really be watching what you're doing and
risk muggles harming the box. But there often aren't enough people around
to hope to help out if there IS going to be a problem. Thursday, Friday,
and Saturday evenings, the gangs, drug sellers, party crowds with the
alcohol, etc. tend to come out. I do not box in the Cook County preserves
on those evenings. But, in this weather, Saturday and Sunday, the gang
folks, drug folks, etc. are often all sleeping in from the night before,
plus the "weekend warriors" and "weekend R&Rers" come out -- people fishing,
boating, biking, jogging, taking hikes with the kids, etc. -- so altho
discretion can be much harder, I think the safety factor is way up. Just
have to be more careful, tho, that people don't decide to investigate just
what it is that you're doing.

Everyone else's mileage may vary, obviously, this is just what I've found in
the Cook County preserves. A lot of the preserves have beefed up police and
ranger patrols, but they're still spread pretty thin and it's almost
impossible for them sometimes.

And there are some nice boxes out there in both DuPage and Cook Counties
which aren't in forest preserves. You might have to travel further to get
to them. I don't know if any of them are in your neck of the woods.

It's highly unlikely it would be a set-up. I think probably even if you
weren't letterboxing, the car would have ended up being broken into. This
was your first letterboxing experience. There can be a biiiig learning
curve to letterboxing. Clues that might seem really vague to you now, you
might kick yourself a year down the road that you didn't see what the clues
meant.

And on the other hand, if the box was placed by someone relatively
inexperienced, placing a letterbox has a biiiig learning curve too. The
more a person does it, the better they (hopefully) will become at writing
clues. And then some people DO intentionally write vague clues. I like
difficult clues. But I heartily dislike vague clues. Because I don't like
to go tromping thru woods and possibly hurt fragile environments
unnecessarily. Sometimes when you're just starting out boxing, it might be
better to look for a box that's been planted by someone who seems to have
more experience. Or maybe post before going searching, to get opinions on
the box. I'm not talking about "hints" or giving away any secrets or
anything, but just to see if it might be a good box for a newbie?

Was this box on LbNA? The only two boxes for Orland Park on LbNA are
Howling Coyote's "Shake! Shake! Shake!", which has good clues and a great
stamp -- I loved that stamp! -- and Tiptoe and Tonto's Cicada Mania, which I
had intended to go looking for this Sunday but the clues for that one don't
really seem vague at all, tho it certainly looks like a compass is
necessary.

Anyway, if you decide to take another stab at letterboxing once you've
recovered somewhat and want to meet up some Sunday early to mid-morning or
so, email me privately.

~~ Mosey ~~
http://freewebs.com/moseyingalong



-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of sixpoppers
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 3:01 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] BEWARE - northern Illinois


My sisters, my son and I have been very excited to get started with
letterboxing.

We decided to go on our first hunt last night.

We printed out clues for a letterbox near us in a forest preserve in
Orland Park, IL.

First of all, we spent about 45 minutes searching since the
directions became quite vague once we were in the forest. We gave
up, very disheartened, finding nothing.

The worst part was when we returned to my car in the parking lot.
It had been vandalized - a window had been shattered and my purse
stolen with all my credit cards and drivers license.

I had just bought this car on Tuesday. How devastating.

My husband feels that this could have been a set up. Get people to
go deep into the forest on a search for nothing while they break
into your car.

I am really sad about the car, the theft, the vandalism AND that
letterboxing turns out to be a very high risk activity. I guess we
won't be doing this again.

K.




Yahoo! Groups Links

That stinks.

FWIW, I always lock my purse out of sight in the trunk of the car
before heading off on a hike or 'boxing expedition. I kind of agree
with the other respondants here; it's unlikely this LB was a set-up
specifically for this purpose. HOWEVER - it's always a good idea to
not leave anything of value visable in your parked car.

Most likely, some teens know that people go hiking there, and hit the
trailhead parking to see what's there for an easy smash-and-grab. In
fact, now that I think about it, I remember last summer visiting
friends in Texas - we went boxing in a Nature Preserve and there was
signage warning us about this very thing. AND lots of broken window
glass in the parking lot. A sad state of affairs...

I am glad you and your family are safe - please remember, that is the
most important thing! Good luck in the future, and I hope you do
reconsider and give letterboxing another try!

~rozebud

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "sixpoppers"
wrote:
>
> My sisters, my son and I have been very excited to get started with
> letterboxing.
>
> We decided to go on our first hunt last night.
>
> We printed out clues for a letterbox near us in a forest preserve
in
> Orland Park, IL.
>
> First of all, we spent about 45 minutes searching since the
> directions became quite vague once we were in the forest. We gave
> up, very disheartened, finding nothing.
>
> The worst part was when we returned to my car in the parking lot.
> It had been vandalized - a window had been shattered and my purse
> stolen with all my credit cards and drivers license.
>
> I had just bought this car on Tuesday. How devastating.
>
> My husband feels that this could have been a set up. Get people to
> go deep into the forest on a search for nothing while they break
> into your car.
>
> I am really sad about the car, the theft, the vandalism AND that
> letterboxing turns out to be a very high risk activity. I guess we
> won't be doing this again.
>
> K.
>

At 04:01 PM 5/18/2007, you wrote:

>My husband feels that this could have been a set up. Get people to
>go deep into the forest on a search for nothing while they break
>into your car.

Hi there! Welcome to letterboxing. Please do not let this
experience stop you from this great hobby/game/adventure. I'm sure
that this tragedy occurring at the same time as your first hunt is a
major coincidence.

I just looked at the clues for the box ( I think) you were looking
for. The placers of that box are well known and respected, They've
been around for a while. I do not know them personally,but I've seen
their name lots and lots. This isn't their only planted box. So, I
really doubt this was a set up. I have heard of one box that was a
set up to get funny videos of people for youtube. But, the placement
of the box you're talking about doesn't sound likely as a place for a
setup. As a planter, you really have no way of knowing how or when
someone is going to show up to find a box. It could be tomorrow, or
next week, or three months, or in the case of some harder boxes...
years or never. Unless maybe you had a camera staked out and could
monitor it and get there really quickly, you'd never know when
someone may show up. That doesn't seem very likely.

Assuming I'm looking at the right box clues, they don't seem overly
vague to me. But, remember part of the fun of finding boxes is
"getting in the head" of the planter while you are
searching. Everyone is going to see and describe something different
than you may see or describe it. If you aren't open minded about the
clues and try to see things you wouldn't normally see, it's easy to
get confused and not find the box. Also, lots of clues will be
intentionally vague and misleading to cause you some extra
challenge. The thrill of the hunt involves figuring it all
out! Anyway, the box clues I'm looking at, that I think is the one
you were trying to find, was just found 5 days ago.... so it should
still be there!

I think it just may be that the bad guys just happened to be there
when you were, saw an opportunity and took it, randomly. Was your
purse visibly out in the open in the car? Did you hide it in the
trunk or under the seat in such a way that someone could have seen
you hiding it? There's a great set of articles on atlasquest about
being safe and practicing safe habits while
letterboxing. http://www.atlasquest.com/aboutlb/rules/ Check it out!

Give it another shot. Like I said, I'm sure this was just a random
event that had nothing to do with the box itself. Get out there and
box, again. Maybe go somewhere where you are more familiar. Bring a
friend. Be aware of where you are and who else is there. Trust your
gut, if you get a bad vibe out of the situation or someone hanging
around... get back in your car and leave.

Bali

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is why, if I know I'm going to be locking anything valuable in
my trunk, I do it *before* I get to the trailhead or wherever. Should
the thieves be in the area and see the purse get put in the trunk,
well, they just know where to go get it...... It's sad that this
happens at all, but it does - the one time my folks' car was broken
into was at a trailhead when Dad accidentally dropped his wallet on
the seat and didn't realize it before we went off hiking.

.000003 of a cent from a boxer raised by a slightly paranoid mother. :-)
pezpam


On May 18, 2007, at 6:22 PM, rozebud.rm wrote:

> FWIW, I always lock my purse out of sight in the trunk of the car
> before heading off on a hike or 'boxing expedition. I kind of agree
> with the other respondants here; it's unlikely this LB was a set-up
> specifically for this purpose. HOWEVER - it's always a good idea to
> not leave anything of value visable in your parked car.
>
> Most likely, some teens know that people go hiking there, and hit the
> trailhead parking to see what's there for an easy smash-and-grab. In
> fact, now that I think about it, I remember last summer visiting
> friends in Texas - we went boxing in a Nature Preserve and there was
> signage warning us about this very thing. AND lots of broken window
> glass in the parking lot. A sad state of affairs...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

When I go boxing, I have a secure place inside my backpack where things
can't accidentally fall out. Into that goes one credit card.

Into my pockets go 1. my cellphone -- so that I can reach it quickly; 2. a
bunch of cash, so that I can reach it quickly to throw at a person who might
be trying to rob me, then when they bend down to grab the cash, I take off
running and screaming; and 3. my car keys, that I can pull out and hopefully
use to gouge someone's eye out if they're going to try to abduct me or
anything.

That's all that I carry with me of personal stuff when I box. (I also call
myself and leave a message on my answering machine as to just where I'm
headed and I call again once I get there.) Everything else stays at home.
Windows can be broken too easily, trunks can be popped too easily, etc. And
too many "bad guys" know that people are likely to "hide" their valuable
stuff someplace in the car, so if they have the slightest inkling that
you're not coming back right away, they can just wait until you're out of
sight, break in, and take their time searching.

Incidentally, right now I'm watching on the news about an attack up at Camp
Hine Forest Preserve up by Mount Prospect in Cook County. See? Friday
evening...........not a good time to go boxing in Cook County forest
preserves. Nooooooo.

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Pamela Smith
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 5:49 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: BEWARE - northern Illinois


This is why, if I know I'm going to be locking anything valuable in
my trunk, I do it *before* I get to the trailhead or wherever. Should
the thieves be in the area and see the purse get put in the trunk,
well, they just know where to go get it...... It's sad that this
happens at all, but it does - the one time my folks' car was broken
into was at a trailhead when Dad accidentally dropped his wallet on
the seat and didn't realize it before we went off hiking.

.000003 of a cent from a boxer raised by a slightly paranoid mother. :-)
pezpam


On May 18, 2007, at 6:22 PM, rozebud.rm wrote:

> FWIW, I always lock my purse out of sight in the trunk of the car
> before heading off on a hike or 'boxing expedition. I kind of agree
> with the other respondants here; it's unlikely this LB was a set-up
> specifically for this purpose. HOWEVER - it's always a good idea to
> not leave anything of value visable in your parked car.
>
> Most likely, some teens know that people go hiking there, and hit the
> trailhead parking to see what's there for an easy smash-and-grab. In
> fact, now that I think about it, I remember last summer visiting
> friends in Texas - we went boxing in a Nature Preserve and there was
> signage warning us about this very thing. AND lots of broken window
> glass in the parking lot. A sad state of affairs...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Yahoo! Groups Links

K~

I won't repeat too much of what everyone else has already said, but I
too agree you were most likely not set up at all. In fact, I feel much
more comfortable hunting boxes in the setting that you chose.

The one thing I will add is that I recently had my letterboxing bag by
Eagle Creek stolen because someone thought it was probably a purse of
some sort---but instead they got my treasured signature stamp, my
logbook, all my Marvy Markers, stamp pads, my AAA card and some
emergency money?! That was the draw that got them into my car and it
never occured to me that someone would steal my hiking bag?! I know I
left it right on the passenger seat after having a great day of hunting. :(

Please, please do not give up on letterboxing. It is such a rewarding
hobby that never fails to give you some joy often from unexpected
places---whether it is a wonderful location, a creative stamp, a
handmade logbook matching the theme, a stamp that makes you smile
because the name of the box itself now makes more sense or meeting a
fellow letterboxer on the trail! If you begin to place your own boxes,
it is also some of the most awesome emails sent when someone else finds
their first box--which just happens to be yours.

We all hope you give it another try and hope that you are able to get
your car fixed and driver's license and other personal items squared
away quickly!

Trailtracker/OH

Just want to add that the officer that came to the
scene told us that this has been going on regularly in
the south and southwest side forest preserves.

He related an incident where a woman actually locked
her purse in her trunk BEFORE even leaving her
driveway at home, as she was on her way to a forest
preserve.

Nonetheless, her trunk was jimmied and purse was
stolen in the parking lot of the preserve.

The officer said that the people who are doing this
will simply randomly choose an auto, whether or not
any valuables are showing, and break in to search.
Even car trunks, where obviously there is nothing
visible.

So, basically you can take everything out of your car
and carry it on your person and your car still stands
a chance of being damaged and broken into.

Just want to spread this warning to those in northern
Illinois.

Had I been forewarned of this type of crime being so
widespread in my area I would not have gone to the
forest preserve, no way.

And, unfortunately, it does put a sour taste in my
mouth toward letterboxing. It just isn't as exciting
anymore after I have spent all day dealing with
insurance company, dmv, bank, credit card companies,
etc.

K.


Visit me at:
http://zekesbest.blogspot.com/
Check for updates!

This is the part that makes no sense to me and we were
unable to determine what this meant:

"Cross the wash and count ten steps. There you should
find yourself standing next to a fallen burnt log on
your right."

My note: DID NOT SEE ANY BURNT LOGS

AND:

"(At this point you can continue down the path to the
creek and check out the creek and the tree
bridge)BUT the clues to the letterbox call for you
to turn around, and go back on the trail you just came
50 steps from the fallen burnt log."

My note: This run-on sentence can be interpreted
different ways making the directions totally
different. It can mean - 'the clues to the letterbox
call for you to turn around, and go back on the trail;
you just came 50 steps from the fallen burnt log.'

if this is the case, then they are simply telling you
how far you have just come from the burnt log if you
go off the trail.

but it could also go like this:

'the clues to the letterbox call for you to turn
around, and go back to on the trail you just came
(from) 50 steps from the fallen burnt log.

If this is the case, then I'm going to assume that if
you go off the trail and then get back on it AT the
point of the burnt log, then you should now take 50
steps.

This is what I meant by confusing. I still have no
idea which the author meant. Because we had invested
so much time already, we tried both - we canvassed the
area encompassing from between 0 to 50 steps. There
are SO MANY trees that you could never be sure that
you were in the area between two trees 'one at 80
degrees on your left, and the other at 280 degrees on
your right.' At any given spot on the trail you would
be in between trees at these directions!

Depending on placement of punctuation (and the lack
thereof) a sentence can have entirely different
meanings. And the sentence that reads:

"BUT the clues to the letterbox call for you to turn
around, and go back on the trail you just came 50
steps from the fallen burnt log." is definitely
missing punctuation because it makes no sense as it
is.

K.


--- xxxxxxxx wrote:

> Hi K,
>
> Welcome to letterboxing! If you think about it,
> letterboxing is really no
> more unsafe than any other activity you'd be doing
> in whatever area forest
> preserve you went to. Thank God it was your car that
> was damaged and not
> your or any of your family.
>
> Cook County forest preserves can present more than
> the usual amount of
> problems because they're both secluded, so you can
> easily end up in an area
> where nobody will hear you scream or, if they do,
> they're not about to help
> you anyway, and since Cook County is so urban and so
> populated, there are
> likely to be far more "weirdos" and "sickos"
> abounding. There are also a
> lot of homeless people who live in forest preserves,
> about 1/3 of the
> homeless population are emotionally disturbed in
> some form or another, and
> they can become both very upset if they feel people
> might be coming too
> close to where they've stashed their possessions and
> also can tend to break
> into vehicles looking for cash or anything they can
> sell quickly.
>
> If you're not used to keeping an eye out for
> yourself in a forest preserve
> setting, you might want to try some of the DuPage
> County boxes first to get
> a feel for it. Not that ANY preserve is totally
> safe, tho. I had the
> scariest boxing "adventure" of my life so far out on
> Johnson's Mound in Kane
> County, a box planted by the now-apparently-defunct
> Gray Family 5. And I've
> always felt that Kane County's preserves were pretty
> darn safe.
>
> You mention "night." I'm hoping that means you're
> not boxing in the Cook
> County forest preserves after dark. Not wise. If
> you're talking, "night",
> as in maybe early evening, after work and before the
> sun goes down, I still
> wouldn't go on a Thursday evening.
>
> The only box somewhat in your area that I definitely
> would NOT attempt
> unless you've got your wills updated is the one that
> takes in Bachelor's
> Grove Cemetery.
>
> My own personal opinions about Cook County forest
> preserves are that the
> "safest" boxing has been on weekend mid-mornings and
> early afternoons.
> Monday thru Friday SEEM great as far as being able
> to search for boxes with
> oftentimes few people around to really be watching
> what you're doing and
> risk muggles harming the box. But there often
> aren't enough people around
> to hope to help out if there IS going to be a
> problem. Thursday, Friday,
> and Saturday evenings, the gangs, drug sellers,
> party crowds with the
> alcohol, etc. tend to come out. I do not box in the
> Cook County preserves
> on those evenings. But, in this weather, Saturday
> and Sunday, the gang
> folks, drug folks, etc. are often all sleeping in
> from the night before,
> plus the "weekend warriors" and "weekend R&Rers"
> come out -- people fishing,
> boating, biking, jogging, taking hikes with the
> kids, etc. -- so altho
> discretion can be much harder, I think the safety
> factor is way up. Just
> have to be more careful, tho, that people don't
> decide to investigate just
> what it is that you're doing.
>
> Everyone else's mileage may vary, obviously, this is
> just what I've found in
> the Cook County preserves. A lot of the preserves
> have beefed up police and
> ranger patrols, but they're still spread pretty thin
> and it's almost
> impossible for them sometimes.
>
> And there are some nice boxes out there in both
> DuPage and Cook Counties
> which aren't in forest preserves. You might have to
> travel further to get
> to them. I don't know if any of them are in your
> neck of the woods.
>
> It's highly unlikely it would be a set-up. I think
> probably even if you
> weren't letterboxing, the car would have ended up
> being broken into. This
> was your first letterboxing experience. There can
> be a biiiig learning
> curve to letterboxing. Clues that might seem really
> vague to you now, you
> might kick yourself a year down the road that you
> didn't see what the clues
> meant.
>
> And on the other hand, if the box was placed by
> someone relatively
> inexperienced, placing a letterbox has a biiiig
> learning curve too. The
> more a person does it, the better they (hopefully)
> will become at writing
> clues. And then some people DO intentionally write
> vague clues. I like
> difficult clues. But I heartily dislike vague
> clues. Because I don't like
> to go tromping thru woods and possibly hurt fragile
> environments
> unnecessarily. Sometimes when you're just starting
> out boxing, it might be
> better to look for a box that's been planted by
> someone who seems to have
> more experience. Or maybe post before going
> searching, to get opinions on
> the box. I'm not talking about "hints" or giving
> away any secrets or
> anything, but just to see if it might be a good box
> for a newbie?
>
> Was this box on LbNA? The only two boxes for Orland
> Park on LbNA are
> Howling Coyote's "Shake! Shake! Shake!", which has
> good clues and a great
> stamp -- I loved that stamp! -- and Tiptoe and
> Tonto's Cicada Mania, which I
> had intended to go looking for this Sunday but the
> clues for that one don't
> really seem vague at all, tho it certainly looks
> like a compass is
> necessary.
>
> Anyway, if you decide to take another stab at
> letterboxing once you've
> recovered somewhat and want to meet up some Sunday
> early to mid-morning or
> so, email me privately.
>
> ~~ Mosey ~~
> http://freewebs.com/moseyingalong
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
> sixpoppers
> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 3:01 PM
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [LbNA] BEWARE - northern Illinois
>
>
> My sisters, my son and I have been very excited to
> get started with
> letterboxing.
>
> We decided to go on our first hunt last night.
>
> We printed out clues for a letterbox near us in a
> forest preserve in
> Orland Park, IL.
>
> First of all, we spent about 45 minutes searching
> since the
> directions became quite vague once we were in the
> forest. We gave
> up, very disheartened, finding nothing.
>
> The worst part was when we returned to my car in the
> parking lot.
> It had been vandalized - a window had been shattered
> and my purse
> stolen with all my credit cards and drivers license.
>
> I had just bought this car on Tuesday. How
> devastating.
>
> My husband feels that this could have been a set up.
> Get people to
> go deep into the forest on a search for nothing
> while they break
> into your car.
>
>
=== message truncated ===


Visit me at:
http://zekesbest.blogspot.com/
Check for updates!

also, no I was NOT in the forest after dark.

the parking lot where we parked was full of cars.
There were bikers heading off on the bike trail there.
When we got back, there was still another car there -
a family with a child.

What blew me away was that the child (a girl about 7)
was wandering alone in the parking lot. We asked her
if she saw anyone break the car window. She readily
came over and spoke with us. She was very friendly.
Her parents were nowhere in sight. We asked her where
her mom and dad were - she pointed to the bike trail.
Evidently, they were still walking the trail and let
her go back to the parking lot ALONE.

She was there, hanging around with us for a good 15
minutes before the parents appeared.

wow.

K.

--- K D wrote:

> Just want to add that the officer that came to the
> scene told us that this has been going on regularly
> in
> the south and southwest side forest preserves.
>
> He related an incident where a woman actually locked
> her purse in her trunk BEFORE even leaving her
> driveway at home, as she was on her way to a forest
> preserve.
>
> Nonetheless, her trunk was jimmied and purse was
> stolen in the parking lot of the preserve.
>
> The officer said that the people who are doing this
> will simply randomly choose an auto, whether or not
> any valuables are showing, and break in to search.
> Even car trunks, where obviously there is nothing
> visible.
>
> So, basically you can take everything out of your
> car
> and carry it on your person and your car still
> stands
> a chance of being damaged and broken into.
>
> Just want to spread this warning to those in
> northern
> Illinois.
>
> Had I been forewarned of this type of crime being so
> widespread in my area I would not have gone to the
> forest preserve, no way.
>
> And, unfortunately, it does put a sour taste in my
> mouth toward letterboxing. It just isn't as
> exciting
> anymore after I have spent all day dealing with
> insurance company, dmv, bank, credit card companies,
> etc.
>
> K.
>
>
> Visit me at:
> http://zekesbest.blogspot.com/
> Check for updates!
>
>


Visit me at:
http://zekesbest.blogspot.com/
Check for updates!

Please don't blame letterboxing. Your car could have been broken
into at the grocery store, at the mall, even in your own driveway.
Just because it happened one time while you were out letterboxing is
no reason to stop. If you think it is just because you were at a
forest preserve, try hunting boxes that are not in forest preserves!

TG

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, K D wrote:
>
> Just want to add that the officer that came to the
> scene told us that this has been going on regularly in
> the south and southwest side forest preserves.
>
> He related an incident where a woman actually locked
> her purse in her trunk BEFORE even leaving her
> driveway at home, as she was on her way to a forest
> preserve.
>
> Nonetheless, her trunk was jimmied and purse was
> stolen in the parking lot of the preserve.
>
> The officer said that the people who are doing this
> will simply randomly choose an auto, whether or not
> any valuables are showing, and break in to search.
> Even car trunks, where obviously there is nothing
> visible.
>
> So, basically you can take everything out of your car
> and carry it on your person and your car still stands
> a chance of being damaged and broken into.
>
> Just want to spread this warning to those in northern
> Illinois.
>
> Had I been forewarned of this type of crime being so
> widespread in my area I would not have gone to the
> forest preserve, no way.
>
> And, unfortunately, it does put a sour taste in my
> mouth toward letterboxing. It just isn't as exciting
> anymore after I have spent all day dealing with
> insurance company, dmv, bank, credit card companies,
> etc.
>
> K.
>
>
> Visit me at:
> http://zekesbest.blogspot.com/
> Check for updates!
>

> My husband feels that this could have been a set up. Get people to
> go deep into the forest on a search for nothing while they break
> into your car.

I was feeling sorry for you until you added this point. That's just
completely and utterly uncalled for. When was this box planted? You
think someone sits around for days and weeks at a time waiting for a
sole letterboxer to come along and abandon their car? What do they do
when a person who's just out for a walk in the woods but aren't
letterboxing park comes along. "Nope, can't get that car. They aren't
letterboxers!"

It's not hard to find an unattended car at remote trailheads, which is
why they are often common targets for thieves. It happens all over the
country. I know of cars broken into here in Washington, in Oregon, and
I even posted pictures of broken glass from break-ins at a trailhead I
was at in Hawaii. It happens. Some places it might happen more often
than others, and fortunately it's still rare overall, but it happens.
Fabricating a clue and waiting for what may be days or weeks, even
months or years in some cases, is just ludicrous. I only wish all
thieves were so stupid--it would make them a lot easier to catch.

-- Ryan

ooooo look--snapping turtle! =)

Sheba

rscarpen wrote:
> My husband feels that this could have been a set up. Get people to
> go deep into the forest on a search for nothing while they break
> into your car.

I was feeling sorry for you until you added this point. That's just
completely and utterly uncalled for. When was this box planted? You
think someone sits around for days and weeks at a time waiting for a
sole letterboxer to come along and abandon their car? What do they do
when a person who's just out for a walk in the woods but aren't
letterboxing park comes along. "Nope, can't get that car. They aren't
letterboxers!"


---------------------------------
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't think her husband's suspicions are any reason to not feel sorry for
her that this situation happened. Her husband's suspicions don't change
what happened, and I feel badly for ANYone that something like this would
happen to them.

I also don't think that it's totally inconceivable that we could find this
type of stuff happening here and there, altho in probably very very rare
situations, as the media brings the idea of letterboxing to more and more
people. I don't about your neck of the woods, but no boxes around here have
to go for "days and weeks, even months or years" before having finders. Not
if they're posted on LbNA or atlasquest. Around here, it's a matter of
hours, sometimes minutes, of when the box is posted on LbNA or atlasquest
that boxers start working the clues. :-) Boxes planted in 40 below zero
weather with 3 feet of snow on the ground, yeah, those might sit a bit
waiting for nicer weather to come along.

I'm not saying I think at all that it's even a remote possibility in her
situation. Just because I know the ins and outs of a lot of the Cook County
forest preserves. Nobody needs to go to the work of planting a box to draw
people in to be able to take advantage of them.

Given the sheer numbers of people who visit the Cook County preserves every
day, the number of people who have crimes perpetrated on them is probably
very tiny compared to the total number of people who visit the preserves.
But someone has to be the victim, and it can easily be a letterboxer, given
that many boxers like to box at times when they don't have to worry so much
about the discretion issues, and those are the times that the crime right is
going to go up. She said that when she left her car, there were plenty of
people around. When she returned, there was only her car and one other.
Even tho it was still light out, it was probably just a little too late in
the day.

The poster said this was her first letterboxing experience. So she and her
sisters might not realize that it would be a pretty remote possibility that
an unsavory character would bother going to the work of placing a fake
letterbox just to rip off peoples' cars when they park there. Her husband
might know even less about letterboxing.

It just sounded to me that, altho she said she's from that area and that was
why she chose to go searching for that particular box, she's not all that
familiar with the ins and outs of Cook County forest preserves and the
potential they present for unsavory characters to be able to take advantage
of people.

And that's a good lesson for other folks new to boxing to take heed of.
Preserves are not necessarily safe places. Just because ya pass them all
the time and see folks out hikin' and bikin' and having huge family picnics
and such, and they look like fun places to be, there's also a dark side to
them, some dark sides being vandalism to cars or the robbing of people, to
getting caught in the middle of a gang fight if two rival gangs decide to
claim that woods as their own (also something that tends to happen around
sundown when most people have already cleared out for the day), to being
murdered and having your body stashed away there in the woods (to maybe be
found a year or two down the road).

It always worries me when I read about single parents who go boxing with no
other adults, taking young children boxing with them. If they're confronted
by an unsavory character, having that child there to have to protect and
worry about can really make the situation worse. Bending into a car for an
extended period of time getting a child in or out of a car seat and not
paying any attention to what might be going on around them outside the car
also makes the adult more vulnerable if someone wants to sneak up suddenly
from behind them.

I think her post was a good one to get new boxers, especially those for whom
letterboxing might be their first experience of being in more remote areas
with fewer people around, to think about safety. Safety first, letterboxing
second. No, I don't follow my own advice. :-) But I've got an absolutely
fantastic sixth sense, and I take MOST of the safety precautions I can think
of. But I do box alone 99.97% of the time and I do often box at very
offbeat hours. One of these days, it could get me killed tho. And I'll
have nobody to blame but myself. But it'll be OK...........because I will
have found that box YES!!!!!!!!!!! :-)

~~ Mosey ~~



-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of rscarpen
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 11:37 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Re: BEWARE - northern Illinois


> My husband feels that this could have been a set up. Get people to
> go deep into the forest on a search for nothing while they break
> into your car.

I was feeling sorry for you until you added this point. That's just
completely and utterly uncalled for. When was this box planted? You
think someone sits around for days and weeks at a time waiting for a
sole letterboxer to come along and abandon their car? What do they do
when a person who's just out for a walk in the woods but aren't
letterboxing park comes along. "Nope, can't get that car. They aren't
letterboxers!"

It's not hard to find an unattended car at remote trailheads, which is
why they are often common targets for thieves. It happens all over the
country. I know of cars broken into here in Washington, in Oregon, and
I even posted pictures of broken glass from break-ins at a trailhead I
was at in Hawaii. It happens. Some places it might happen more often
than others, and fortunately it's still rare overall, but it happens.
Fabricating a clue and waiting for what may be days or weeks, even
months or years in some cases, is just ludicrous. I only wish all
thieves were so stupid--it would make them a lot easier to catch.

-- Ryan

Thank you Mosey. I was thinking about how hateful
that other note sounded and it was making me feel even
more down than I already am. I guess there are some
people that just feel good about making people feel
worse?

Oh well - your support made my day.

I don't know why the other person felt the need to
attack me. I didn't say those were my thoughts about
being suspicious about letterbox placement. They were
not. My husband knows very little about the whole
thing and I'm the one who has read about this and been
poring over the websites and clues since last winter -
just dying for some good weather to get out there and
hunt. I just posted his comment kind of as another
reason why it was looking like I would probably be
giving this thing up.

Again, thank you for being kind.

K.
--- xxxxxxxx wrote:

> I don't think her husband's suspicions are any
> reason to not feel sorry for
> her that this situation happened. Her husband's
> suspicions don't change
> what happened, and I feel badly for ANYone that
> something like this would
> happen to them.
>
> I also don't think that it's totally inconceivable
> that we could find this
> type of stuff happening here and there, altho in
> probably very very rare
> situations, as the media brings the idea of
> letterboxing to more and more
> people. I don't about your neck of the woods, but
> no boxes around here have
> to go for "days and weeks, even months or years"
> before having finders. Not
> if they're posted on LbNA or atlasquest. Around
> here, it's a matter of
> hours, sometimes minutes, of when the box is posted
> on LbNA or atlasquest
> that boxers start working the clues. :-) Boxes
> planted in 40 below zero
> weather with 3 feet of snow on the ground, yeah,
> those might sit a bit
> waiting for nicer weather to come along.
>
> I'm not saying I think at all that it's even a
> remote possibility in her
> situation. Just because I know the ins and outs of
> a lot of the Cook County
> forest preserves. Nobody needs to go to the work of
> planting a box to draw
> people in to be able to take advantage of them.
>
> Given the sheer numbers of people who visit the Cook
> County preserves every
> day, the number of people who have crimes
> perpetrated on them is probably
> very tiny compared to the total number of people who
> visit the preserves.
> But someone has to be the victim, and it can easily
> be a letterboxer, given
> that many boxers like to box at times when they
> don't have to worry so much
> about the discretion issues, and those are the times
> that the crime right is
> going to go up. She said that when she left her
> car, there were plenty of
> people around. When she returned, there was only
> her car and one other.
> Even tho it was still light out, it was probably
> just a little too late in
> the day.
>
> The poster said this was her first letterboxing
> experience. So she and her
> sisters might not realize that it would be a pretty
> remote possibility that
> an unsavory character would bother going to the work
> of placing a fake
> letterbox just to rip off peoples' cars when they
> park there. Her husband
> might know even less about letterboxing.
>
> It just sounded to me that, altho she said she's
> from that area and that was
> why she chose to go searching for that particular
> box, she's not all that
> familiar with the ins and outs of Cook County forest
> preserves and the
> potential they present for unsavory characters to be
> able to take advantage
> of people.
>
> And that's a good lesson for other folks new to
> boxing to take heed of.
> Preserves are not necessarily safe places. Just
> because ya pass them all
> the time and see folks out hikin' and bikin' and
> having huge family picnics
> and such, and they look like fun places to be,
> there's also a dark side to
> them, some dark sides being vandalism to cars or the
> robbing of people, to
> getting caught in the middle of a gang fight if two
> rival gangs decide to
> claim that woods as their own (also something that
> tends to happen around
> sundown when most people have already cleared out
> for the day), to being
> murdered and having your body stashed away there in
> the woods (to maybe be
> found a year or two down the road).
>
> It always worries me when I read about single
> parents who go boxing with no
> other adults, taking young children boxing with
> them. If they're confronted
> by an unsavory character, having that child there to
> have to protect and
> worry about can really make the situation worse.
> Bending into a car for an
> extended period of time getting a child in or out of
> a car seat and not
> paying any attention to what might be going on
> around them outside the car
> also makes the adult more vulnerable if someone
> wants to sneak up suddenly
> from behind them.
>
> I think her post was a good one to get new boxers,
> especially those for whom
> letterboxing might be their first experience of
> being in more remote areas
> with fewer people around, to think about safety.
> Safety first, letterboxing
> second. No, I don't follow my own advice. :-) But
> I've got an absolutely
> fantastic sixth sense, and I take MOST of the safety
> precautions I can think
> of. But I do box alone 99.97% of the time and I do
> often box at very
> offbeat hours. One of these days, it could get me
> killed tho. And I'll
> have nobody to blame but myself. But it'll be
> OK...........because I will
> have found that box YES!!!!!!!!!!! :-)
>
> ~~ Mosey ~~
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
> rscarpen
> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 11:37 PM
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [LbNA] Re: BEWARE - northern Illinois
>
>
> > My husband feels that this could have been a set
> up. Get people to
> > go deep into the forest on a search for nothing
> while they break
> > into your car.
>
> I was feeling sorry for you until you added this
> point. That's just
> completely and utterly uncalled for. When was this
> box planted? You
> think someone sits around for days and weeks at a
> time waiting for a
> sole letterboxer to come along and abandon their
> car? What do they do
> when a person who's just out for a walk in the woods
> but aren't
> letterboxing park comes along. "Nope, can't get that
> car. They aren't
> letterboxers!"
>
> It's not hard to find an unattended car at remote
> trailheads, which is
> why they are often common targets for thieves. It
> happens all over the
> country. I know of cars broken into here in
> Washington, in Oregon, and
> I even posted pictures of broken glass from
> break-ins at a trailhead I
> was at in Hawaii. It happens. Some places it might
> happen more often
> than others, and fortunately it's still rare
> overall, but it happens.
> Fabricating a clue and waiting for what may be days
> or weeks, even
> months or years in some cases, is just ludicrous. I
> only wish all
> thieves were so stupid--it would make them a lot
> easier to catch.
>
> -- Ryan
>
>
>
>
>
>


Visit me at:
http://zekesbest.blogspot.com/
Check for updates!

Hi KD,
This list goes up in flames frequently, I don't recommend it for
anyone with a thin skin. Of all the lists I belong to I have never
seen a list get as nasty as this one. Ryan's comment was mild compared
to the average flame here:)
I do recommend the Yahoo group for new boxers. I can't remember the
exact name right now but if you do a search on (letterboxing, new),
you should be able to find it. They are quite kind.
I haven't had my car broken into but I have wondered why not. I think
that it happens more and more these days to hikers and boxers alike
and it is quite sad.

I have sometimes thought that I should go back to an old car and just
leave it unlocked. That way it is obvious that there is nothing to
steal because even if you left your purse at home, thieves don't know
that and a broken car is a drag too.
There are some great boxes in urban settings if you don't want to
venture the woods anytime soon, although I don't know about Illinois.
Good luck,
Nisha


>SNIP<
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, K D wrote:
>
> Thank you Mosey. I was thinking about how hateful
> that other note sounded and it was making me feel even
>SNIP<

> I guess there are some
> people that just feel good about making people feel
> worse?

Sorry, but it felt like an indictment of letterboxers everywhere, and
being a letterboxer myself, I probably took it a bit too personally.
Not all letterboxers are going to be thoughtful, wonderful people, but
something as ludicrous as thinking someone deliberately planting a
box just to break into someone's car.... At least if you (or your
husband, really) wants to accuse letterboxers of something, throw out
mud that will stick. =)

Even the Code of Conduct on Atlas Quest says:

"Do not forget security from the two-legged variety of animals (i.e.
people). Deep in the woods and away from civilization is not a
breeding ground of killers, rapists, and thieves. The stories you hear
on the news are news because such events are so unusualyou are far
more likely to be attacked walking down a public street than you will
be on a little used trail far from civilization.

More likely, evil doers are lurking near the trailhead where they can
smash into your car and steal any valuables left behinda fate that
has struck many letterboxers. Leave nothing of value in your car,
orat the very leasthide everything of value under your car seat, in
your trunk, or somewhere else hidden from view."

Letterboxers are a wonderful bunch of people. It doesn't do anyone
well to paint them in an unfair light. Sorry for the hurt feelings.

-- Ryan

I guess I didn't take it personally because I didn't take it as an
indictment of all letterboxers.

If someone nasty were going to post clues to a non-existent box in order to
hurt someone, I think it's more likely that, rather than being a
letterboxer, the EvilNonPlacer found out about letterboxing somehow and
decided to use it for their own gain and wouldn't know what a logbook
actually looked like if their life depended on it.

Not to say there CAN'T be a Letterboxer-Gone-Bad. We have
Letterboxers-Gone-Wild, we have Letterboxers-Gone-Obsessed, we have
Letterboxers-Gone-And-Gotten-Lost-in-the-Woods-Because-They-Won't-Give-Up-Th
eir-Search-When-the-Sun-Goes-Down, we have..............

So why not a Letterboxer-Gone-Baaaaaaaaaaaaad? But that's not an indictment
of all letterboxers any more than a one Drunken Idiot Deerhunter who
accidentally shoots another Drunken Idiot Deerhunter out in the woods should
be an indictment of all deerhunters. Tho I know there are some
deerhunter-haters who might feel such an indictment might be warranted. :-)

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of rscarpen
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 10:50 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Re: BEWARE - northern Illinois



Sorry, but it felt like an indictment of letterboxers everywhere, and
being a letterboxer myself, I probably took it a bit too personally.
Not all letterboxers are going to be thoughtful, wonderful people, but
something as ludicrous as thinking someone deliberately planting a
box just to break into someone's car.... At least if you (or your
husband, really) wants to accuse letterboxers of something, throw out
mud that will stick. =)

> So why not a Letterboxer-Gone-Baaaaaaaaaaaaad?

If it makes you feel any better, there is at least one letterboxer who
is now a convicted murderer serving a life sentence. I'd say that
ranks as pretty bad. =)

Don't worry, though, he only killed his wife or something like that.
Not other letterboxers. *nodding* I haven't heard of any cases of a
letterboxer killing other letterboxers. Just running them in circles,
around trees, and even occasionally with compass directions that are
precisely 180 degrees off from their true course. ;o)

-- Ryan

Ryan said:

I haven't heard of any cases of a
letterboxer killing other letterboxers.


*****I dunno - that FTF Fever gets pretty bad sometimes! Are we sure there
aren't any missing boxers who may be victims of afflicted boxers?

--
Barefoot Lucy
"It's not about footwear, it's about philosophy"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

K, I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience. I go letterboxing with my mom and dad, with NOW 6 kids in tow. They all love letterboxing. This morning, my momand dad, and 4 out of the 6 brats (form our Trail name) , and went to the one you had the bad experience at in Orland. I didn't know they went to the same one until they called me and told me they found the box, and where it was. My family found the box you were searching for, but it is one of them that you need a compass for. They went to the wrong tree at first, but then pulled out the compass and found it. And it never fails, we're always right begind Atom118 and Coffee Beans in finding the boxes. LOL Luckily, (knock on wood) we haven't had any real bad luck in letterboxing. Not finding one or two, is normal, especially in the beginning. My parents actually got caught in the bad thunderstorm last year on the REAL long LB hike, and when they started to head back for the car, large tree branches were
fallen on the path, and they were SOAKED by the time they got to the car! But, usually, if they go out without me, thye call me and let me know where they are at, and call back to let me know if they found the box or not. My parents do that whether they have my kids or not with them. We were lucky enough to run into a couple letterboxers on our 1st try out, and they were wonderful. (the Wormy Wanderers) If you ever wanna try again, we live in Alsip, send me a line, and if we're going out for the day, we would be happy to show you it can be fun. (if you don't mind a trail of 6 kids with!) =) The next few weeks, we got a B-day (Swee' Pea will be 2yrs) and also a wedding the following week, so in June, after the 1st week, we'll be starting to hit the trails at least one day onn the weekend. There are some wonderful letterboxes out there, and some that lead to a great ice cream shop, or a place to eat or shop! We planted our 1st one last year, in Wisconsin, and so
far everyone likes it! We plan on planting some more this year as well. And unfortunately, another one in Wisconsin..Sorry, Illinois, we will be planting some here as well!!! (The next one in Wisconsin is a special one....it's for my cousins) =) Well, I hope you will give it a try again! Usually best time to go is early on the weekends, about 8am and well go LBing until 4pm. We pack a lunch and eat at one of the parks before heading to the next stop, and we clean our hands well afterwards to get rid of any food scent so we don't attract animals to the box. Well take care, and hope to see you out on the trails.

Brat Pack IL
Big Brat

xxxxxxxx wrote:
I guess I didn't take it personally because I didn't take it as an
indictment of all letterboxers.

If someone nasty were going to post clues to a non-existent box in order to
hurt someone, I think it's more likely that, rather than being a
letterboxer, the EvilNonPlacer found out about letterboxing somehow and
decided to use it for their own gain and wouldn't know what a logbook
actually looked like if their life depended on it.

Not to say there CAN'T be a Letterboxer-Gone-Bad. We have
Letterboxers-Gone-Wild, we have Letterboxers-Gone-Obsessed, we have
Letterboxers-Gone-And-Gotten-Lost-in-the-Woods-Because-They-Won't-Give-Up-Th
eir-Search-When-the-Sun-Goes-Down, we have..............

So why not a Letterboxer-Gone-Baaaaaaaaaaaaad? But that's not an indictment
of all letterboxers any more than a one Drunken Idiot Deerhunter who
accidentally shoots another Drunken Idiot Deerhunter out in the woods should
be an indictment of all deerhunters. Tho I know there are some
deerhunter-haters who might feel such an indictment might be warranted. :-)

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of rscarpen
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 10:50 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Re: BEWARE - northern Illinois

Sorry, but it felt like an indictment of letterboxers everywhere, and
being a letterboxer myself, I probably took it a bit too personally.
Not all letterboxers are going to be thoughtful, wonderful people, but
something as ludicrous as thinking someone deliberately planting a
box just to break into someone's car.... At least if you (or your
husband, really) wants to accuse letterboxers of something, throw out
mud that will stick. =)






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